Tiffany Robinson (00:02.367)
Welcome to Comfort Connections. I'm your host, Tiffany Robinson. Most older adults want to stay in their own homes as they age, and for many families, the biggest question is how to make that safe. Medical alert devices have been a part of the answer for decades, and they've changed a lot since the days of a single button on a pendant. Today's devices include smartwatches, GPS, and fall detection, along with tools that keep families and care teams proactively informed.

My guest today is Laura Aiello, Vice President of Business Development at LifeStation. Laura has spent more than a decade in the medical alert industry working with health plans, hospitals, and healthcare providers to help older adults live safely and independently at home. Laura, welcome to the show.

Laura Aiello (00:47.01)
Hi Tiffany, thank you so much for having me.

Tiffany Robinson (00:49.785)
Laura, can you share a little bit about your experience as a family caregiver and how that's informed your approach to your work?

Laura Aiello (00:57.998)
Absolutely. So gosh, it's going on almost six years ago now. My mother-in-law passed away suddenly at 68. It was unexpected. And she was everything to my father-in-law. So, you know, they've been together for 50 years. She handled every aspect of his life. So not only was this loss devastating to us, but we just weren't prepared for how it was going to affect him mentally, emotionally, and physically. So he went from someone who was incredibly active, going to the gym and social every day.

Tiffany Robinson (01:06.969)
Wow.

Laura Aiello (01:27.714)
To someone who went into depression and really sits alone in his home. And I was just thrown into this caregiving role that I had worked alongside for so long and heard so much about, but never got to have this lived experience about it. So it really changed my perception of truly living and understanding what so many of our members and caregivers go through every day. I now stand alongside them and experience this.

Tiffany Robinson (01:53.89)
Wow. Can you talk a little bit about your experience with with being a family caregiver and then also the advances in age tech and how that can actually help families quite a bit with that caregiving role?

Laura Aiello (02:08.683)
Yeah, we are in the middle of a caregiving crisis. There are not enough adult children to take care of our aging population. And we all are in this period of our life where we have our own families, we have careers, we have so much that we need to handle. So having to handle both our children, ourselves, and each other, and then our aging loved ones, it's it's a real problem. It is not enough time in the day.

There is a strain on finances, on mental health. So we need to be able to have technology to support us and help us in what we need to take care of every day. So for example, the technology has changed so much in that now my father-in-law wears one of our smart watches and I have the blessing of knowing where he's located, what he's doing, and if he's moving around all day. You know, there's so many times where I call him and I said, Hey pop, are you going to the gym today?

And whether he's telling me the truth or not, I can always see how many steps he's taken and really know how many times he got out of that chair to know what's going on.

Tiffany Robinson (03:15.331)
Yeah, so we've really kind of moved away from, you know, in the earlier days of a medical alert, it was simply you have a pendant, there's a button, you press that, and and it can call, you know, for help. But now you're able to see really a snapshot shot view of his day. How many steps did he take? Is he moving around, getting around? It's really, really great that we've able we've been able to see kind of the advancements in allowing us to care for.

Our aging parents and loved ones, right? There's a lot of us that are in that sandwich generation, like you've talked about. And, you know, you also throw in there maybe even children who aren't living close by their loved ones. So that throws another whole aspect to this process. So when we're thinking about home care agencies and them being involved in the day-to-day care, and right, we're not always in the home.

24 hours a day. So having these medical alert devices are so important for the especially those hours we're not there. What should a home care agency know about a client's medical alert setup?

Laura Aiello (04:24.363)
I think it's a great question. There is so much stigma around medical alert. Everyone, you know, knows the commercials we all grew up with, and it paints this picture of a frail, elderly, non-independent person, and nobody looks in the mirror and sees themselves like that. So, first of all, you want to empower people that this is something that allows them to keep living independently, that is just their

Tiffany Robinson (04:32.899)
Yes.

Tiffany Robinson (04:48.238)
Yes.

Laura Aiello (04:49.395)
if they need it. And for many people, it gives them what they need to get out of bed each morning because they know, you know what, I'm gonna go on with my day. I'm gonna take that walk. I'm gonna go garden and do what I want to do. And for home care and and hospice and and all of the other care coordinators that deal and care so deeply about these members of their community, they can't always be there 24 hours a day. Lots of time, especially home care hours, a certain only a certain amount of hours in a week. So

What happens in those other hours where someone's not there? It's all about the data. It's about knowing, hey, if I have a member with a high elopement risk, that's a wander risk. I'm gonna be able to know with these devices where they're located at any given time. And we've had so many success stories where people said, I don't know where Mr. Smith is. And they're able to go into our portal or text us and get a Google map back of the location of Mr. Smith wearing his device.

And it's just so comforting to know that you can still go on with your day and know that about your member. And then when it comes back to home care, what's going on in all of those hours that they're not in the home? There's so much trend data. Like you said before, are they getting up in the are they moving around during the day? Is their device charged and is it changing in fluctuation of charging? If you see that this device is always on 100%.

You know it's sitting on a charger. They're not wearing it. It should be going down and up throughout the day as their usage happens. So it can you can tell so much about a person's activity. And also, in all the times that our members press their button, there's so many conversations we have. Nine out of 10 times they're pressing this pendant, not because they're having a medical emergency, but because they have other questions or they're feeling lonely and socially isolated and they just want to have a conversation with someone. All of this data can be fed to our partners.

Tiffany Robinson (06:14.595)
Ha ha ha.

Yes.

Laura Aiello (06:42.645)
And they can learn so much about what's going on in that member's life.

Tiffany Robinson (06:46.327)
That's really amazing to think about. So, one thing I also think about and and remember, so we used one of these devices for one of my family members years ago. And the biggest thing that we would kind of butt heads about is wearing it, right? They would say, it feels really intrusive. I don't want something tracking me, I don't want something taking away my independence. And I think the important thing is to say, this is what's keeping your independence, allowing you.

To still stay at home, live on your own. This is just allowing the people that care about you, love you, to make sure that things are going well. And if they're not, then we're being alerted. That way we can get to you s quicker, right? Then, you know, a lot of us have stories of a family member who took a fall and were on the floor for hours, if not days in some situations. That's terrible. Getting someone who has fallen up quickly is so important for their.

healing and being able to move forward, the injuries that happen when you're sitting there. So it it's a really great idea to have a medical alert device for your independence. So just kind of changing our thought process on what this is doing. Can you talk a little bit to that about this is just really something that's going to help you stay independent.

Laura Aiello (08:02.271)
Yeah, no, I mean you have this lived experience too, understanding what it takes to have a loved one need this and for you to feel okay and have the peace of mind. As someone who loves and cares about them, the conversation needs to change. For so long, this has been a reactive purchase. Something happened, they're discharged from a hospital, a major fall happened, and now luckily they were okay and they came out of that situation, and now we want to look into a medical alert. The conversation needs to be proactive.

Tiffany Robinson (08:20.067)
Yes.

Laura Aiello (08:31.691)
And I think the mistake that families make is forcing this on a family member or making that decision without allowing that loved one to be a part of the conversation. You want to sit down, you don't want to make it an interrogation where all the family is sitting in a circle and saying, you need this because you are getting old, that they don't see themselves like that and they don't want to be told what to do. But they want the ability to continue thriving, living in the home that they love and know for all of their life, doing the activities that keep them happy and

Tiffany Robinson (08:46.958)
Yes.

Laura Aiello (09:00.919)
their mental health fresh. And this conversation should be about, hey, there's these really great technology in the world today that can support you to keep doing the things you love and allow us to feel great and safe that you know should anything ever happen, and I hope you never have to use it, but should it, you can press it and someone will be there for you. And like you said, it is a drastic difference between getting quick help to lying there for hours or sometimes days.

in what the outcome of that's going to be, both on their physical and mental health and on the cost of of how long that recovery is going to take.

Tiffany Robinson (09:38.478)
And I have to imagine that some of this stigma of feeling like, I don't want someone to see me wearing this device is really going away because how many of us are wearing smartwatches that are tracking our steps and are tracking the things that we're doing just from a health perspective. And we're doing that. I mean, my kids even have that. They're teenagers, right? So I think we're gonna lose some of that stigma where it's just something that everyone is wearing, right? To track what's going on and how the day is going. So I I think that's also something positive to know that.

Laura Aiello (10:05.687)
Yeah.

Tiffany Robinson (10:08.269)
Some of this stigma I think is gonna just continue to to die.

Laura Aiello (10:12.011)
Yeah, and the products and technology are getting so much more modern where people are enjoying wearing them. They come in colors now, they are lightweight, they look modern. There are smart watches like we offer that tell them the weather and time and the step count and all of the cool activities that they already know and love and are doing. So I think that it's no longer this huge button that you're wearing on your chest with a red thing in the middle that people know what it is. It they've really changed and are our modern and

Tiffany Robinson (10:18.212)
Yes.

Tiffany Robinson (10:29.892)
Yes.

Tiffany Robinson (10:36.696)
Yeah.

Laura Aiello (10:42.316)
Look great.

Tiffany Robinson (10:43.577)
How can professional caregivers encourage daily wear, help the clients just be more successful with what they're trying to do?

Laura Aiello (10:53.761)
I think it's all about keeping them connected to understanding their use. People aren't always so forthcoming. And so telling the real story to professional caregivers or even loved ones to know what's really happening in the home can encourage them to have the right conversations. The real thing is, if you're not wearing this device, then when something happens and you need help, you're not going to be able to get help. So we always encourage people.

Tiffany Robinson (10:57.796)
Yeah.

Laura Aiello (11:20.151)
To use it to test their button, to have conversations during the week and get comfortable knowing how easy it is. And so when something does happen, they feel comfortable with it. You need to know that this is something that's also waterproof. They can wear it at all times. They shouldn't feel like they have to take it off if they're washing dishes or going to take a shower. This should just become part of their daily routine, like wearing a wedding ring or wearing their favorite earrings or necklace. This should just be something like that.

Tiffany Robinson (11:48.036)
That's wonderful because a lot of times we are having falls that occur when we're maybe trying to work in the kitchen or you're taking a shower. So it's great to know this is something you're wearing all the time. We don't take it off. Like you said, it's so it's the wedding ring. It stays on. That's great.

Laura Aiello (12:02.621)
Yeah. It's always it should be a part of you and your normal routine.

Tiffany Robinson (12:06.989)
Let's talk a little bit about the response plan. So what does that look like? Can families, if there's you know, maybe more than one child that wants to be listed as you know, an emergency response, is there an order that they can go in? What does that look like?

Laura Aiello (12:21.195)
Yeah, I think it's the most critical part of deciding about this service because yes, the technology is great. You want to make sure they have something, but it's really about that time when an emergency happens and getting connected quickly. So what happens today is when they press their button, they're connected immediately with the monitoring center where the care agents have a conversation about them. And what's wonderful is those care agents know where they're located, their home address, their phone number, and their entire circle of care.

We think it's critical to get all of the information that matters to a person, all of their loved ones and children, their home health workers, even pharmacists or neighbors or pastors, people that are just involved in knowing about their life on a day-to-day that can help. And you set your personal emergency plan, who you want to be notified when you have these situations. It can be phone calls, emails, text messages, and we always make sure the entire circle of care is aware in real time.

So that they can take the appropriate next step actions.

Tiffany Robinson (13:21.237)
Amazing. I mean that's really comprehensive as well as how there's different ways to get in touch with people and it's going to follow the exact plan that the user wants, which I think is great. Can we take a little bit of a closer look at medical alert devices? What do these devices look like today? How do they work?

Laura Aiello (13:39.948)
Yeah, no, it's a great question. So there's a suite of services available today so that it fits a lifestyle. The conversation is a really about the members' lifestyle. If you're someone who spends most of your time in and around your home, you want to have one of those in-home devices. That is a pendant that they wear on their neck or on their wrist, never needs to be charged, and it's a small box console that really goes or looks like an old answering machine would.

You kind of put it somewhere in a kitchen or a living room, and it's a very loud and powerful speakerphone and microphone. And they go about their day in and around their home. And when they need to communicate with someone, they press that pendant. We also have a very big line of mobile devices that can be worn for the more active person that's not spending most of their time in home. They're going out and about, they're driving, they're going for walks, they're riding their bikes, and they're spending time outside of their home. These devices can be worn on the wrist.

around the neck or even on belt clips and they are waterproof, two-way voice through all of the devices themselves. And they just do need to be charged as all of our mobile devices do. But we always say, hey, when you're home having a cup of tea in the middle of the day, put it on the charger and make sure it's charged up. Not when you're going to be sleeping and maybe get up in the middle of the night and need to use it.

Tiffany Robinson (15:01.079)
Right, that makes sense. Can you walk us through the process that takes place when there is an emergency? What does that look like? Someone presses the button, says there's emergency. What are those next steps?

Laura Aiello (15:12.705)
Yeah, so they'll press their button and immediately get connected with our care center. They attempt to have a conversation with that member and assess the situation. And there's many different avenues that this can take, depending on the partner and the member and what their custom plan is. A lot of times people will call and press their button and say, you know, I'm just having a really severe headache, not sure what's going on.

And we have a nurse triage company that we can connect them to 24 hours a day, a live nurse that can talk them through some of their problems and their symptoms. Alternatively, if it's a critical medical emergency, we would send the appropriate emergency response, fire, police, medical, whatever the case may be, and at the same time notifying all of their loved ones and their care circle. So we always attempt to have that conversation, assess the situation, and get them to the appropriate party to help them.

Tiffany Robinson (16:04.473)
I love that there's a nurse triage a part of it because if you're just having an off day, you aren't sure, you know, should I go to an urgent care, should I call my loved ones to take me to the doctor? It's great to just talk to a professional and get their take on what's going on. That's fantastic.

Laura Aiello (16:21.015)
Yeah, and I think it really changes the stigma of people thinking if I press this, an ambulance is going to show up at my door. And I don't want that. I don't want my neighbors to hear this happening. So instead, they then don't press it or they then don't wear it. And that's what we're trying to avoid. So knowing that, hey, if just something's going on and you want to talk to a professional, we can get you there as well.

Tiffany Robinson (16:28.396)
Right.

Tiffany Robinson (16:41.551)
Can you talk about the different kinds of calls that come in that aren't necessarily emergencies? I know you mentioned someone's just having an off day, but what are some of the other types of calls that that peop that you see?

Laura Aiello (16:51.179)
Yeah, I I think it really runs the gamut. There's a lot that deal with mental health and social isolation. There's a lot of loneliness that happens, especially for people that may have lost their loved one and they're living alone like my father-in-law is. So sometimes it's a lot about conversations. They just want someone to talk to. Many times pressing that pendant is the only connection they have during the day to have real conversations with people. So that happens in the world. There's other times where it's just not critical medical emergencies.

Tiffany Robinson (17:03.972)
Yeah.

Laura Aiello (17:20.085)
Maybe their knee feels different. A lot of times it's something as simple as a lift assist. They sat down in their chair and now they just can't get back up and they need someone to help them so that they're not sitting there all day. There's so many different types of situations and conversations that happen, not just critical medical emergencies.

Tiffany Robinson (17:38.871)
And in that situation of someone getting in the chair and feeling like they can't can't quite get themselves up, you guys would be able to even just call maybe the daughter that lives two streets over and have her come over and and help mom. As simple as that. Perfect.

Laura Aiello (17:50.966)
Exactly. I think that's why it's so important to make sure you're really having these conversations with your loved one and providing a full care circle. They may press their button and say, I don't want to tell my daughter this happened again, but call my neighbor Bob. He's really great and he'll come help me. And that's okay. We just want to make sure to get him help, you know? So I think that it it's really about them defining all the people that can matter to them and help them in their life, whatever the question may be.

Tiffany Robinson (18:05.423)
That's great. Yeah.

Absolutely.

Tiffany Robinson (18:18.115)
And I also think sometimes just saying like, Hey, you're the boss here, right? If you don't want us to call your daughter, we're not going to. We're we'll call the neighbor that's that's willing to pop over and help you. So letting them know you're still in control.

Laura Aiello (18:21.762)
Yeah.

Laura Aiello (18:29.663)
Exactly. And I th and that will allow them to want to wear this and use this and everyone to be happy. It's not meant to be big brother. No one is taking over their life. We're empowering them to keep living the independent life that they want.

Tiffany Robinson (18:33.23)
Yes.

Tiffany Robinson (18:42.799)
Can you talk about fall detection, how that works and and what are the limits of that?

Laura Aiello (18:48.023)
Fall detection is a wonderful technology. You know, there's lots of people in the world today that are really high risk for falls, epilepsy, seizures. Perhaps they have severe arthritis and they don't have the dexterity to press a pendant. So they say, my gosh, I'm gonna be needing this and I won't be able to press the pendant, or I'll be having an episode and not have the knowledge to know to press my pendant. And that's where fall detection really plays an important role. All of our devices today can have fall detection enabled.

And this technology can automatically detect that a fall has occurred and it would signal our monitoring center and our care team would come on the line as if that member pressed their button. So the technology is wonderful. However, everyone falls differently. This is not a 100% foolproof way to know that a fall has occurred. So we always encourage people: if you can press the button, you should. But as you know, if you're sitting in a chair and it's just a slow slide off the chair,

The technology might not feel or detect that a fall has occurred. So I think that it's wonderful technology. It's just not 100%. So I don't think that people pause. Let me start there. Let me stop and start again. I don't think that people should use fall detection as a crutch and say, well, we have fall detection. I never need to press the button. You should always press it if you can, but know that in many situations it'll detect it for you.

Tiffany Robinson (20:11.927)
It's there as a backup, which is great. You should always press it, but in the event that you can't, it's very likely going to pick up that a fall has occurred. That's great. Let's talk about choosing a device. Where does the family start?

Laura Aiello (20:13.503)
Exactly.

Laura Aiello (20:19.562)
Absolutely.

Laura Aiello (20:25.333)
It's a great conversation. It's all about lifestyle. You should ask a typical day or a typical week in your loved one's lifestyle and really then determine: okay, is most of the time they're in and around their home or are they going out more often? Because then it'll at least narrow it down: are you talking about in-home devices or are you leaning more towards mobile? And then based on that, you can then say, do they like wearing things around their necks, on their wrist? Would they be more prone to wearing a watch and a better chance that they wear it every day?

Tiffany Robinson (20:44.334)
Right.

Laura Aiello (20:53.505)
And that's really how you should steer the conversation on their daily activities.

Tiffany Robinson (20:58.137)
Now, what about a lot of us have an experience with our older age family members and technology, and sometimes we feel like they don't necessarily mix well together. How is this for someone who says, I'm not great with technology? What is it like for the user?

Laura Aiello (21:14.933)
It couldn't be more simple. All of our devices are pre-programmed and ready to go from the box. So as I mentioned earlier, we know everything about where they live, their loved ones, their care circle. So we send this device directly to them and it's ready to go. It just needs power. It's as simple as plugging in a charger or a toaster or things that they do every single day. So it really also helps. They feel empowered and excited to open this box and say, I can do this.

Plug it in, make sure it has power, and then start wearing it and living your life.

Tiffany Robinson (21:47.482)
That's great. Now I'm sure lots of people have this question. Is this a covered benefit under any of the insurances that they might have? Medicare, Medicaid? What does it look like in regards to coverage?

Laura Aiello (22:00.685)
There are many wonderful ways to get help or to supplement your monthly cost with a medical alert system today. If you are on a Medicaid plan, in most states this would be fully covered for you. And I always suggest you talk to your case manager to have that conversation. Medicare unfortunately does not cover the service today, but Medicare Advantage plans may, especially if you are in what's called a DSNP or a dual eligible population where you have both Medicare and Medicaid.

So again, talking to your social worker, your care manager, they could help you navigate this. And there are many wonderful discounts available today through the health network. So I always suggest calling your health plan and asking what benefits you are entitled to. And you could always hope to get a discount on it if it's not fully covered already.

Tiffany Robinson (22:47.939)
That's great to hear. So there is coverage available. It's not just something that's entirely out of pocket. There there probably is some type of coverage. You just have to ask and find out what you're covered for. Yes.

Laura Aiello (22:57.737)
Always ask the question. And even when you're calling a medical or company, you should ask, hey, I'm a member of these associations, do they have any discounts available? Because many times they do and they just don't realize that they can get those discounts.

Tiffany Robinson (23:10.489)
That's a great tip to think about. I mean, it could be anything from military to, you know, any other. It's a great way just to see, hey, is there a discount available? Looking ahead, what changes do you expect in age tech?

Laura Aiello (23:18.827)
Absolutely.

Laura Aiello (23:24.929)
I'm really excited about what's going to happen with how the products are going to advance and develop and get even smaller and how AI is really going to support this network. I think that there's so many interesting

Think, sorry, starting again. I think there are so many interesting advancements that are coming down the line that we can't even think about today. So many people, as I mentioned, are lonely or socially isolated. And I want them to feel empowered having devices like this to also be able to have companions, someone to talk to. It doesn't always need to be a human. And I think AI is showing us that there's a lot of things that AI can do that fill those gaps.

So can we have conversations? Can we learn about their day? Can you have tablets in the home that are working with medical alert devices to just really be part of their normal daily routine? There's so much coming up and I'm just excited to be a part of it.

Tiffany Robinson (24:26.841)
That is really exciting because I think a lot of times people assume, gosh, I'm gonna have to have a caregiver in the home around the clock. And of course that can be costly. And instead saying, not necessarily. Maybe we have those caregivers in the home during the most active hours. And then we're utilizing some of these other tools. Well, we're collaborating together. And maybe, you know, late at night, if they just want to chat with someone, it's an AI bot, right? And it's something that's just helping them feel.

comfortable, secure, and just helping them have better days, which is always what all of us are looking for.

Laura Aiello (24:59.341)
I mean, think about it, it's such a hassle all the appointments you have to go to to handle transportation for many people who don't drive. If you can simply have something like a medical alert system that's going to protect you in and around your home or when you go out, to being able to call a nurse and say, hey, you have a tablet or you have a smartphone and to have a FaceTime with that nurse to have the conversation you need, then you don't barely have to go to your appointments. Everything can happen in the comfort of your home.

And everyone that's connected to you can still get the details they need to know on what the next steps are. This is where technology is taking us.

Tiffany Robinson (25:33.751)
Anything that can make our lives easier and just streamline a process is just such a benefit to all of us. So when device data is shared with families and providers, how does the wearer stay in control of their information?

Laura Aiello (25:49.678)
So they're part of it too. They always know the information that's being shared and that's being sent with the people that they have approved are on their list. And at any time they can make changes. So if there's something that they want to change or someone that has changed in their network that they want to take or remove, they would simply call us and we would do that. The important part is the thing you said earlier. They are still in control of their health and every decision that they make. So it is their choice.

Tiffany Robinson (26:13.795)
Yes.

Tiffany Robinson (26:18.479)
That's great to hear. What's one feature that you wish every family knew about?

Laura Aiello (26:24.435)
Ooh, honestly, find my loved one is a service that we offer at Life Station that I wish people used all the time. This is again something that can tell where their loved one is located. Even myself, I call my father at home and he doesn't answer the phone, and I have meetings all day. So now in the back of my mind, I'm nervous. He said he was gonna be home today. He's not supposed to be going out. He didn't tell me he had any appointments, but I have to have all these meetings all day.

And I can't do both at the same time. So when I use find my loved one, it shows me, he's at Publix, he's at the grocery store. And then I feel good because he got up today, he's getting himself groceries, and I know that he's okay. It's really and I didn't even need to bother him or tell him that it happened. It just gave me the peace of mind to continue on with the day that I need to have. So I think it's a wonderful feature that people should really take advantage of using.

Tiffany Robinson (27:18.255)
That's really amazing. What is the most common reason that someone says no to a medical alert device?

Laura Aiello (27:25.557)
It's still about that stigma. We have come so far and a technology has just been so modern and so advanced. But I think that this industry did itself a disservice by 30, 40 years ago painting that picture in those commercials that everyone still knows about. So we need to make sure we are having more conversations that we do not think you are not independent. We don't think you're not capable of taking care of yourself. But this is about empowerment.

It's about having that sidekick with you in the event that you need something and I can't be there for you. So we have to continue to change that conversation and erase the stigma that has been carried with us for so long.

Tiffany Robinson (28:07.833)
I want to thank you so much for your time with us today. As we kind of get to a close here of this episode, I do have a final question for you. For a family caregiver who worries about a parent living alone, but hasn't brought up a medical alert yet, what would you recommend be their steps, their first step?

Laura Aiello (28:26.581)
It's a great question. And I think the most important part is make it a natural conversation. Don't make it an interrogation. Don't bring in your siblings and have an entire family sit down. Mention it when you're with mom next time, grabbing lunch with her. Say, hey mom, I saw something today that I thought was really cool and just want to get your opinion on it. Ease into the conversation. It doesn't have to be just one conversation. Start dropping hints, ease into it, grow over time.

And then start involving her in seeing what they look like, seeing how they could be really cool and help her and make her feel empowered to make that decision on her own as well. That's the best advice I can give is don't dictate, bring her in as part of the conversation.

Tiffany Robinson (29:11.225)
That's really, really great advice. Thank you so much for your time today and sharing your expertise with us.

Laura Aiello (29:17.261)
Thank you for having me. This was a wonderful conversation. I appreciate it.