Tiffany Robinson (00:02.296)
and thank you for tuning into Comfort Connections. I'm your host, Tiffany Robinson, and today we're talking about something we see all the time in caregiving. What to do when a parent won't accept help, even when it's clear they need it. Joining me is Dr. Barry Jacobs, a clinical psychologist, family therapist, and national caregiving expert whose work has helped thousands of families through some of their toughest moments.

Dr. Jacobs is the author of several books, including the newly released AARP Caregiver Answer Book. He's also been a longtime voice of support for caregivers through his AARP.com column and continues to offer therapy focused on chronic illness and caregiving through his practice in Media, Pennsylvania.

With decades of experience and deep compassion for caregivers, Dr. Jacobs brings both professional insight and personal heart to the conversation. I'm so glad to have him with us today. Welcome Dr. Jacobs.

Barry Jacobs (01:01.04)
Thank you so much Tiffany, it's really a privilege for me to be here.

Tiffany Robinson (01:04.866)
Dr. Jacobs, I'd love for you to share a little bit about your background and what led you to focus so deeply on the caregiver relationship.

Barry Jacobs (01:14.262)
Sure. So when I was 14, my father developed brain cancer and that had an enormous impact on the whole family. He died when I was 15. And thank you. And, you know, what I learned at a very early age as a consequence of that is that illness is not something that just affects individuals, it affects whole families because we were all very deeply affected. And it

Tiffany Robinson (01:25.4)
Yeah.

I'm so sorry.

Barry Jacobs (01:43.496)
It became sort of my mission in life to help families do a better job of caring for loved ones than my own family did. During my family, unfortunately, during the time that my dad was ill and then afterwards, there was a lot of fighting, infighting between my mother and my father's mother. And the family had what's called a schism afterwards. People in the family didn't talk with one another for many, many years afterwards because of some of the

the hurt feelings that, and I mean, it was really awful. It made things worse for me. It was bad enough to lose my dad, but then when family members stopped talking to one another, it made everything worse. So I did a number of things in my life. was a, before I became a psychologist, I was a journalist and because I love to write, but I eventually gravitated to becoming a psychologist. And as a psychologist began working with family members.

individuals dealing with chronic and serious illness as well as their family members. And I've been doing this now for over 30 years.

Tiffany Robinson (02:48.81)
Wow. Now with working with so many families, do you feel like this moment of resistance where sometimes people are just not willing or they're not ready to accept care? Why do think this is so common and something that we really do see regularly?

Barry Jacobs (03:06.102)
I I think I'm going to state some of the obvious that we all know. mean, number one is even if we get older, it doesn't mean that we want to lose our independence. And the idea of accepting help for many people feels like they're losing their independence and therefore losing some of their identity. So that's really a big piece of it. They don't want their quote unquote kids taking over their lives. Right. So that's one piece of it. The other piece of it is

Tiffany Robinson (03:30.997)
Right. Right.

Barry Jacobs (03:35.188)
And, you know, if I've had a dollar for every time I've heard someone say this, I would have been a rich man a long time ago. That is people don't want to be a burden. The idea of burdening their children is just anathema to them. So they say things like, you focus on yourself, you focus on your family. I'm fine. I don't want to burden you. And as a consequence, they really resist care that they need. And even if it puts them at some risk and

I went through this with my mom. My mom was a very proud, take charge kind of a lady. And then toward the end of her life, she developed all kinds of frailty and she actually had vascular dementia eventually. But the idea of my caring for her made her feel like she was losing herself. And she was very aware that what I did for her, I wasn't doing for my teenage children at the time. And she just didn't want it.

to allow me to do that and fought me, made the caregiving harder because she fought me, she resisted me so hard.

Tiffany Robinson (04:38.414)
Right? You know, something that I read in your book, and I think it goes along with these same lines, is going from being the helper to being helped. And I think that that's probably something that's really difficult to kind of wrap your mind around. How do you help people navigate that?

Barry Jacobs (04:57.014)
It's not easy because there is a kind of grief that goes along with that, especially for people who've been helpers their whole lives and now are on the receiving end of care and feel like the receiving end of care is somehow demeaning or humiliating. So I say things to them like, I ask them, when you were in middle aged and your parents needed help, did you care for them?

almost invariably they say, yes, I care for my parents as they age. I said, and how did they receive that care? And sometimes they tell stories of their own parents resisting care. And I said, well, what was that like for you? But in essence, I try to help them think about what their children, their adult children are going through now. And the fact is their adult children, they genuinely want to help them and a parent's resistance is making that adult child's life harder. Whereas

providing that opportunity for that adult child to actually help is an opportunity for that child to grow and mature. And isn't that what parents want to do for adult children?

Tiffany Robinson (06:00.778)
Absolutely. What are your thoughts on how they can come to the table and have this difficult conversation? I know myself, I'm working with families and many of them are looking into care, but they haven't spoken to their loved ones at all because they are so unsure of what that response will be. What will they think about, you know, even family caregivers coming in or professional caregivers?

Barry Jacobs (06:28.47)
I mean, as you're pointing out, people don't rush into this conversation because it's an uncomfortable conversation because, you know, and oftentimes when you bring it up with a parent, you say you don't say, hey, you're getting older. You know, I want to run your life now. You don't start there. But you basically say, you know, you're going to your doctor annual physical appointment with your doctor. You know, can you now 70 years old? Let's start talking about what.

Tiffany Robinson (06:32.236)
right?

Barry Jacobs (06:56.884)
you want to do as you get older. You're in great shape now, but perhaps 10 years from now, you may need more help. And rather than wait till then to give you the help, me help you now think through what it is you want. What are your plans for where you might want to live? What are your plans for how you want to live? And the adult child saying to a parent, I'm here to support you to live the way you want.

not the way I think you should. And if parents from very early on see the adult child as an ally rather than as a kind of adversary in this, they're more apt to have these conversations. I also always tell adult children, this is not one conversation. This is a conversation where almost the first two or three times it's a sure thing the parent is gonna say, no, why do wanna talk about this? Or what are you worrying about? I got this, right? And, but if the...

Tiffany Robinson (07:40.653)
Mm-hmm.

Barry Jacobs (07:53.066)
the child every, not to bring it up every day, looking for opportunities. Maybe somebody, maybe another family member has fallen and broken a hip, or maybe another family member has decided to move, or maybe somebody has hired home health aides, and those are all opportunities to have a conversation about what your parent may need, and just gently raising the topic and saying, hey,

I think this is a good thing for us to talk about. And again, it's not about my telling you what to do. It's really more about my listening to what you want.

Tiffany Robinson (08:29.528)
Yeah, I really appreciate how you really talked about planning. So we're not always coming or waiting until this person really absolutely cannot live alone. They can't do many things for themselves. We want to start the conversation much earlier than that because if we're able to think ahead, but even if you are inviting family caregivers or agency caregivers in, we're starting small. We may not be coming in and spending eight hours a day with someone. That can be overwhelming when you've lived alone.

Maybe you have someone that's just popping in, whether it's your children or an agency that you've hired to do some light housekeeping, to do some grocery shopping for you, to take you to the grocery store. If maybe driving is an issue, so not coming in and just like you said, we're taking over, we're doing everything. You're not going to do anything for yourself anymore. We want to make sure that we're really giving them the idea of this care is not to take away independence. When I'm working with, you know, potential clients, I'm talking to them about this is

how we keep mom independent. We want her to, if she wants to stay in the home she's been in for 50 or 60 years, we want to help her do that. And by doing that, it means maybe we're having someone come in and do some standby assistance while she's showering. Not completely taking over the process, but being a partner with her to keep her in her home.

Barry Jacobs (09:48.784)
I agree with you completely, Tiffany, that idea of developing that partnership, that trusting partnership matters enormously. I also agree with this idea that most of the time this doesn't happen all at once. It happens very gradually. know, maybe somebody has always hired someone to help clean their home. And so there's already a precedent for bringing people into the home to provide some help for a task that you don't particularly want to do. Or maybe you have someone come and cut your lawn because you don't want to do that. so bringing somebody into

maybe help with something specific like helping with showering or helping with other care tasks. Maybe it doesn't seem so onerous. It doesn't seem so out of the question. So you kind of ease your way in and you develop that trusting relationship. And I think that's the start of people becoming more accepting of health that, as you point out, enables them to be more independent, not simply lose their sense of independence.

Tiffany Robinson (10:46.784)
Absolutely. One thing that I also got from your book is really the importance of not only the right time, but the right place of where we're having this conversation. You used an example of, I think it was Thanksgiving dinner, right? Does mom really want the family coming at her while we're passing the mashed potatoes down the row here? You know, we want to make sure that we're encouraging people to really think about what will this conversation look like? Where will it be? When would it take place?

Barry Jacobs (11:16.692)
I agree. those big family gatherings are not the right place. doing it one-on-one initially, even if you have siblings who feel exactly the same as you do, if you bring all the siblings in and, know, mom, we're having this big family meeting here, we're going to talk about this. I mean, what's going to happen is mom's anxiety is going to go up, her hackles are going to be up, and the conversation is not going to go very far.

But I think with one child basically saying, hey, mom, it's your 75th birthday. But what do you want for your birthday? not just what do you want for your birthday present, but what are your thoughts about the way you're living? And have that gentle conversation and doing it in nice, calm way, hopefully in person. But to basically start the beginning of a dialogue that's going to go on for a while.

Tiffany Robinson (12:15.754)
One other thing that I feel like I see on a regular basis when I'm talking to families is that I really think the wrong approach is to come to mom or dad.

whoever this loved one is and say, you're going to get either help from us family, help from an agency, or you're going to a nursing home. You know, really kind of coming in very strong. And I think it really makes that client feel, you know, very much not respected, listened to. What are kind of your thoughts on, know, how do we bring this up where the parents are going to feel we're on your team? We care about you. We want the same things. And that's why we're looking into care.

Barry Jacobs (12:55.734)
I mean, just along the lines of everything, we've been saying to this point that we're communicating respect and we're honoring their dignity. We're not treating them like a sack of potatoes that we're going to deposit somewhere, or we're just not doing something to their house. We've decided to put a ramp to your front door or we're putting in a stair glide, whether you like it or not. mean, that's...

Tiffany Robinson (13:22.336)
Right.

Barry Jacobs (13:24.754)
I can't think of anything more alienating than that. mean, what parent wants their children to boss them around? mean, you know, what parents absolutely hate is this idea that there's the quote unquote role reversal. And now the children or the parents and the parents are children. I mean, that it's so repugnant to them that they have been reduced to the state of children and don't have decision making power in their own lives. They're to fight that like the dickens.

Tiffany Robinson (13:52.969)
right?

Barry Jacobs (13:53.214)
And so we have to approach them with a real sense of gentleness and respect and honoring who they are and what they want.

Tiffany Robinson (14:02.762)
Absolutely. When we're working with families, something that I always try to communicate to the families is that, you know, if they decide to utilize an agency such as ours, there are many families who are really banding together, working together, everyone's maybe taking a day with mom or grandma, but if they've gotten to the point where maybe they're interested in services, I tell them that our services are as much for them as it is for the client.

We want the client to have better days. We want to improve their quality of life. But we also want those same things for these family caregivers getting a little bit of respite and however they may be find that whether it's using an agency like Comfort Care and At Your Side or if they have maybe a friend from church, let's say that's willing to give them a break for a couple hours on a Saturday. I think it's so important that we're thinking about these family caregivers and their emotional well-being.

Barry Jacobs (14:59.37)
Yes, and we're talking about older adults resisting care. mean, sometimes family caregivers resist care because they feel like they're supposed to do this. And if they hire somebody, that somehow means they're failing in their job as being a good son or a good daughter. And I think as you point out, when we bring help into the home, when we hire somebody, it enables caregivers to go to the bank and, you

I guess people don't go to the bank anymore, It's all online. Excuse me. But they get the hair done or they visit friends or they take care of other family responsibilities because none of us or very few of us just have one family relationship. We have multiple family relationships and we have responsibilities to various people. mean, many, many caregivers are still working. so unless they're planning on giving up their job, then they have to...

Tiffany Robinson (15:28.782)
you

Tiffany Robinson (15:33.038)
Absolutely.

Tiffany Robinson (15:38.446)
right.

Barry Jacobs (15:55.114)
have somebody they are caring for their loved one at a certain time of day. I mean, the idea of hiring help enables them to better balance being a caregiver with the rest of their lives. without those home and community-based services that help in the home, it's just not possible.

Tiffany Robinson (16:15.586)
had actually written down from your book in my notes exactly what you just said that few of us only have one role. We're playing so many roles if it's employee, caregiver, daughter, you know all of these roles and that can be really overwhelming when we think about everything that this family caregiver is dealing with. What is some tips to kind of help them

you know, when I'm caring for mom, maybe I'm just focusing on mom and then I let my brain go to what's next maybe when I leave. Well, what are your tips on just really kind of holding it together? Because that's a lot to manage.

Barry Jacobs (16:50.802)
It is a lot. And I mean, can tell you personally, I was caring for my mom. I was married. I said, I'm married. I have responsibilities as a husband. Our children or son and daughter were teenagers then. So I had responsibilities as a dad. I had a full-time job. And the first step is to just take into account that this is a lot. It is a lot. And that we have to really

you give ourselves grace and be kind to ourselves and not hold ourselves to some standard that we can't meet. What I ended up feeling was that I wasn't a good caregiver to my mom, that I wasn't a good husband, I wasn't a good father, I wasn't a good worker because I was spread so thin I couldn't do anything the way I really thought I should. But the idea of what I think I should, I needed to change my standards a little bit to take into account that I was now taking on so many other responsibilities.

So that's a big piece of it. We have to not be so self-critical. Secondly, I think we have to really develop plans that are realistic. so if we're intending to, no, there's going to be, we only have so many hours in the day, we have to cut back somewhere. So where are we cutting back? Where a lot of people cut back first is in their own self-care, which they do at their own peril because if they're not doing their exercise, if they're not going to the doctor, then they may be.

Tiffany Robinson (17:50.486)
Right?

Barry Jacobs (18:14.582)
place in their own health at risk. But they may only have to really think about what's possible to do. So maybe I can only spend two hours with my mom in an evening because I still have to get home and spend some time with my wife. Or maybe I have to prepare a report for work the next day. Or maybe I have to check my children's homework. If my mother needs more than those two hours of help in the evening, or one hour, or 30 minutes, whatever I can afford, then I have to make arrangements.

for her needs to be met in another way. And again, that may mean hiring somebody to be with her in the evening. the responsibility is solely on my shoulders.

Tiffany Robinson (18:54.37)
What do you what advice could you offer families because this is another common scenario that I see there may be four siblings and one or two of them are local to mom and so they really feel this weight on them because they're local they're here they're the ones that can go to the doctor with mom or they're the ones that are popping in every day. What's some advice because I have to imagine that puts them in a spot where I know my brother lives two states away but I feel like he's

pulling his full share of helping with mom.

Barry Jacobs (19:27.68)
Tiffany, there's one thing that caregivers have very strong emotions about, it's what goes on with their siblings during caregiving. Because this is like the most common thing I talk about as a psychologist. So here, I'll paint the ideal. The ideal is that even though people are maybe in different places geographically or even different places emotionally, that everybody pitches in in some form or fashion. And it's not going to be equal.

Tiffany Robinson (19:34.126)
Absolutely.

Barry Jacobs (19:55.19)
there's always going to be one or perhaps two siblings that are going to do most of the work. But that if someone lives two states away, then perhaps they come and they spend a week during their vacation and give the siblings who are on the front lines some respite. Or perhaps they take care of the insurance, all the paperwork from two states away, which they can do. Or perhaps they send money. There are things that they can do. The expectation is everybody pitches in and that the caregiver,

caregiving siblings talk together about what's possible for each of them, what they're available, able, and willing to do. when that happens, things work out better. And again, it's not going to be equal, but everybody feels like they're in this together. The bad scenario is when one sibling says, well, I never got along with mom anyway. I don't want to take care of her.

Tiffany Robinson (20:39.979)
Right.

Barry Jacobs (20:50.486)
And the other siblings say, well, you may be not just abandoning mom, you're abandoning us. And that's going to affect our relationships with you. Or the sibling says, yeah, yeah, I'll be there. I'll help you. I'll help you. But I'm running my own business. I'm really busy. I'll get there. I'll get to you when I how about when I can. That also causes tremendous bad feeling among the siblings who are doing most of the work. So it takes a lot of conversation.

Tiffany Robinson (20:55.596)
Right.

Tiffany Robinson (21:13.23)
Absolutely.

Barry Jacobs (21:17.374)
Sometimes it takes mediation. I often work with sibling groups where there's been conflict to help them better understand what a parent's diagnosis is, what the parent's needs are, and how they can help not just the parent, but really help each other.

Tiffany Robinson (21:32.99)
I really like the idea of you working with a sibling group of how is everyone feeling? How is everyone chipping in? I think that's fantastic. I hope more families take advantage of working with someone like you because I think it can really benefit them because we do sometimes see that relationships can become difficult and not be the same after we've gone through the process of caring for a loved one. That can be difficult.

Barry Jacobs (21:58.198)
I mean, I've seen siblings who are so angry with one another. I mean, have one now basically said, you know, when mom dies, I'm not talking to my sibling again. That's it. It's over. And what a tragedy because you're not just losing a parent then you're losing a brother or sister. And I mean, we want to avoid that as much as possible. I mentioned from the beginning in my own family, there was a schism. My father's side of the family didn't talk with my mother forever after.

Tiffany Robinson (22:06.36)
right.

Tiffany Robinson (22:12.299)
Exactly.

Barry Jacobs (22:26.678)
I don't want families to go through that. It's very, very painful.

Tiffany Robinson (22:31.096)
How do you support maybe that main family caregiver who they want to keep showing up, they want to be compassionate, they want to respect mom, but they're overwhelmed. And so maybe they're feeling like they're losing their patience, right? I'm not talking to mom the way I would normally talk to mom. I'm overwhelmed. I have a lot going on. How do we help them navigate that?

Barry Jacobs (22:54.89)
It's really good question because I think the other, you this is another very common issue that comes up. People either while caregiving or after caregiving is over feel very guilty about having talked harshly to mom or having yelled at mom. And so what I often say is, you you're human. And if you've ever had an argument with mom in the past, means that you're probably going to have arguments with her now, even if she's now on the receiving end of your care.

your relationship continues if you've butted heads before, you're going to butt your head, butt heads now. That's just what it is. And so I try to help people understand that, number one, that sometimes talking in a kind of irritated, irritated sounding voice is normal. There's just normal family friction. Secondly, that if they're finding that they're irritated a lot or they're talking in ways that they feel guilty a lot, it means that

the caregiving plan that they have in place is not working, that they're too stressed and they need to change the plan. And that may be a sign that they're burning out. It's often a result of not getting enough sleep because they're not sleeping well, because they're worrying too much. And so it may be a time for them to really think about, what other help do I need to bring in? What other family help do I need to bring in? What other professional help do I need to hire to reduce my...

burden of care that I'm feeling because I can't sustain this. I've carried this burden for a while. It's now wearing me down. I need to relieve the burden to some degree. I'm not going to stop caregiving, but I need to make it more managerial.

Tiffany Robinson (24:33.494)
Right.

Another scenario that we run into is it's not necessarily the caregiver that's coming in with maybe the bad attitude. It's the client themselves. And we have to think about this as a person who's maybe realizing we're at end of life. They're not feeling well. I'm not comfortable. not doing the things I used to be able to do. And how do we approach that where you're showing up and you have a loved one where you're saying, I'm coming every day and trying to help you and you're not appreciating it or you're yelling at me or how do we navigate that?

Barry Jacobs (25:05.45)
For the person who's in that position, I want to see in fact that they're clinically depressed because oftentimes is when people are feeling poorly and when they are feeling, you know, they're in despair, they may in fact have depression and sometimes treating their depression medically or even with counseling will improve their behavior to other people. For the caregiver, what I often say is

is the person, human nature, unfortunately, is the person to whom we're closest that we tend to vent the most to or take out our frustrations on. And so the caregivers are sometimes the kind of major target of a client's unhappiness. And the other thing I say is, there's an adult saying that misery loves company.

Tiffany Robinson (25:45.762)
That's true.

Barry Jacobs (26:03.03)
And there's been all kinds of psychological research to suggest that, in fact, people who are miserable make other people miserable. And, know, it's like common sense. We need research to confirm that. and that it's actually kind of a way that people who are feeling miserable can feel less alone with their misery if they make you feel miserable, too. No, they're not doing any favors by making you feel miserable, but it's just kind of what happens. And so.

Tiffany Robinson (26:03.342)
Thank

Tiffany Robinson (26:14.156)
Yes.

Barry Jacobs (26:31.094)
I really work hard with caregivers to not take this personally. And I say exactly that. This is not personal. This is about how your mom, your dad is feeling. And they're not feeling well physically, they're not feeling well emotionally. And they're just not at their best right now. you're gonna do the best that you can with them. no matter what you do, you're not gonna make them happy because they're at a place in their lives where they're not gonna be happy.

Tiffany Robinson (26:57.056)
Right. And I think for us, I see it being mostly the family caregivers that really take this to heart of how mom or dad are treating them or speaking to them are.

professional caregivers, they've seen this a few times. They realize that this is sometimes part of the process of what's going on. So I always think it's important for the family to look into support groups, maybe speaking with a counselor, someone that can help them with this because this is a very, very hard spot to be in your life, but you're not alone.

Barry Jacobs (27:34.644)
No, they're not alone. are millions of people in the same boat. And I think your suggestion is an excellent one. I think going to a support group and having the opportunity to talk with other people who may not have exactly the same caregiving situation, but are in the same position of working their tail off and not feeling appreciated. because that's a very, as you point out, it's a very unfair place to be and it's a very hurtful place to be and people react.

Tiffany Robinson (27:37.944)
Right.

Barry Jacobs (28:04.458)
But when you go to a support group and you talk with other people who've had similar experiences, you feel validated and you feel supported. And then there's often people who've been caregiving longer than you have who can say to you, this is what caregiving is. This is not about you. And this is about the fact that you have someone who is at the end of their lives that are struggling. And this is part of their struggle.

Tiffany Robinson (28:28.354)
What would be one small step this week that someone could take even if their parent says no? What's one small step that they could take this week in opening the conversation, starting the process, and helping their loved ones feel that they are on their team in navigating this journey?

Barry Jacobs (28:47.286)
So I would say, hey, mom, your older sister is thinking about moving to a smaller home or to an apartment. And because she thinks it just be easier to live that way. Have you given that any thought yourself? mean, this house that you're in is three stories and it's full filled with stuff. mean, mom, you've been collecting my old elementary school notebooks, you know, and.

You've got my high school trophies. You've got all the family heirlooms are here. But this is not fair for you to have to live in a place that may become more difficult for you. And so if you've given this any thought, that would be a place to start. And mom would say, yeah, I've given it some thought, but I'm not interested. And I'd say, well,

Tiffany Robinson (29:18.892)
Yes.

Tiffany Robinson (29:38.284)
Right.

Barry Jacobs (29:40.854)
you when you talk with your sister about the fact that she's just started to move, how did that conversation go? What did she tell you? what, what, did she, what was the basis for her decision? So you kind of begin to, to grease the wheels here for, for some, having mom think about this a little bit more.

Tiffany Robinson (29:56.792)
What is one message you want adult children to hold on to when they're facing this kind of resistance?

Barry Jacobs (30:04.426)
I would say again, not to take it personally and to see this as a process. Unfortunately, there are folks that there are clients who will always resent the help that they're being given. And that's really unfortunate. My mom, unfortunately, resented the help I gave her until the day she died. But what I have seen in other

in other families is that the resistance eventually melts away and people become more pragmatic and then actually hopefully reach a place of being grateful that they have good children that are doing their best to help them and they're really fortunate in that regard. And what the children say to them, know, is, mom, you took good care of me and now I want to help you live as well as you can and the way you want. that...

That's a really nice place where adult children and parents can get where they're expressing mutual gratitude and admiration for one another and really defining what family is.

Tiffany Robinson (31:16.236)
Yeah, I really want to thank you so much for your time, your expertise that you've been sharing with us. I want to encourage every single listener who is going through this, or even if you work with families going through this process, I think your AARP column as well as your brand new AARP caregiver answer book, I think those are going to be such valuable tools.

to these individuals so I encourage them. Do you want to tell people where they can get your book?

Barry Jacobs (31:46.506)
Yeah, so the AARP Caregiver Answer Book is available through all outlets, Amazon, et cetera. It's available on the AARP website. It's also available on the website of the publisher, Guilford Press. So it's going to be widely available. And if folks have any interest in contacting me or reading more about me and learning more about the book, they can come to our website, which is www.caregiveranswerbook.com.

And I say we, because this is a book that I co-authored with my wife, who's also a psychologist named Julie Mayer. And this is the third book we've co-authored now. And it's been a great thing in our marriage to do this. It's really brought us closer together. But she is every bit as learned, if not more so, than I am about how families handle this. She has her own family caregiving story. And so.

Tiffany Robinson (32:21.528)
Fantastic.

Barry Jacobs (32:43.286)
Thank you for your interest in the book and thank you for your encouragement, encouraging folks to take a look at it. I mean, our hope is 150 questions and answers on all sorts of different caregiving related topics. And we're really hopeful that it'll answer a lot of the questions, particularly new caregivers have about what is this? What am I supposed to do? How do I do this right? And give them a little greater assurance that they can do this.

Tiffany Robinson (33:03.371)
Exactly.

Tiffany Robinson (33:08.384)
Awesome. Thank you again for your time and your expertise.

Barry Jacobs (33:12.234)
Thank you so much, Tiffany. It's been a pleasure talking with you.

Tiffany Robinson (33:15.064)
Thank you.