Tiffany Robinson (00:02.525)
Welcome to Comfort Connections. I'm your host, Tiffany Robinson. Today we're talking about something so many families are navigating: technology and how to help the older adults we love use it safely. Scams are getting harder to spot, but removing technology can backfire in a big way, leaving seniors cut off from a beneficial window to family and community. My guest today is Lars May, a digital wellness expert and founder of the youth nonprofit Half the Story.

Lars has spent her career helping people build a healthier relationship with technology. And today she's bringing that lens to families and caregivers. Let's get into it. Lars, welcome to the podcast.

Larz (00:43.672)
Thank you so much for hosting me. This is such an important topic, but also one that I hold so closely to my heart because I actually have a lot of friends that are chosen friends who are elders, not just my grandparents. So it feels just very meaningful to have this conversation and I wish we did more of it.

Tiffany Robinson (01:03.723)
This is such an important topic and I'm I'm so excited to have you with us today. Why don't we start with half the story? Tell us about half the story and what drew you into digital wellness work.

Larz (01:16.782)
So I started half the story now, believe it or not, almost 12 years ago. And I was of the first generation to grow up in the digital world where I was deeply impacted by technology. My mental health was when I was a sophomore in college, I was scrolling more than I was sleeping, walking, socializing, or studying. And inevitably being one of the most critical times for human development, that really impacted both my emotional health, my social health.

And my mental health. And so it got to a point where I almost lost my own life and was very lucky to have psychiatric support on campus at school. And it really got me to think about how is technology going to impact the future of humanity? This has to be so much bigger than me. And so it started really as a 19-year-old, eager to understand the stories of people all over the world and how technology impacted them. So half the story really stands for the idea that.

Tiffany Robinson (01:55.402)
wow.

Tiffany Robinson (02:01.877)
Yeah.

Larz (02:16.365)
Technology is only half the story. There's so much more behind a social media post in someone that we don't know, but inevitably it's also here to stay. And technology can be both very supportive for elders and all people, but it can also be very destructive if we're not careful. And as humanity and AI are starting to converge, it's so much more nuanced to ensure that we are protecting the cognitive health of both our elders and our young people, which is

What is so fascinating about this moment, because I believe that teens and kids actually have more in common with elders as it relates to AI scams and all of these other cognitive challenges that we're dealing with, and we don't really talk.

Tiffany Robinson (03:00.982)
Let's talk about balancing safety and access. Let's start with a struggle a lot of families face, wanting to limit a parent's online risk exposure while not wanting to cut them off from the world. So let's start talking about what are some of the biggest scams that seniors face online right now.

Larz (03:01.175)
What?

Larz (03:21.357)
So every single year, and we actually saw that year over year since AI created in in 2005, these scams that were AI-driven investment scams actually exceeded eight billion dollars. And one of the yeah, so it is one of the biggest and most common scams in the world. And for me, as a college student, I remember when my grandparents first scammed and they were called and it was just a phone call. Now

Tiffany Robinson (03:36.533)
My gosh.

Larz (03:50.67)
For a grandparent, someone could take a video of me right now, send it to my grandma, have it say, Grandma, I'm out of money, I'm gonna be going to jail. Can you please help me? And of course, because she doesn't understand AI, she would probably share that money. Obviously, we've taken other safety precautions because I'm her granddaughter, but that is something that

Most elders don't know. And one of the biggest things that AI is really turbocharging right now is investment scams and actually draining retirement savings, which is not just an issue for elders, but also their caregivers and that scaffolding impact across generations. Because we also know that in America, especially, the cost of elder care is so high. And so many families and young adults, given just how expensive our world is.

And the rising cost of inflation, it's very, very challenging to carry that load of caregiving emotionally, let alone from a currency lens. And so essentially what we're seeing is this idea that people are pretending to be these online swindlers and they're going to the elderly and they're asking them, they're basically getting them to put their credit cards down and share their bank accounts. And it's even more vulnerable when they're able to capture the imagery of someone close to them, because of course.

We are now living in a world where it's never been harder to be able to tell truth versus the fake world, but there are some precautions and things that I know we'll get into so that you can safeguard those that you are caring for.

Tiffany Robinson (05:25.398)
So this is something that really scares people, right? We're talking about, you mentioned it's a video and it looks like you, it sounds like you, and this is something that can really trick people. And so with a lot of families hearing about these scams, it it scares them. And right away I think their knee-jerk response is that's it, no internet time for, you know, mom, dad, whoever it might be.

What do you say instead of that? Right? Because there's a lot about technology and internet that is fantastic and and can be greatly helpful. So what do you say to people who right away say, We're just gonna take it away?

Larz (06:00.084)
Yes.

Well, I actually just did an interview with an incredible gerontologist, Dr. Carrie Burn Knight, who wrote the book Joy Span, and we talked a lot about this. And the difference between a child and an elder when you are a caregiver is that we have this desire to do the same things to our parents or to our grandparents that we do our kids, which is I'm setting limits, I'm pulling your iPad away because it is going to impact your brain. Now, yes, we are starting to see that.

For elders, especially with things like AI, if we are not very clear about what is active tech consumption that's positive for our elders versus passive tech consumption, which is essentially the equivalent to giving your elder a family-sized bag of potato chips and watching them eat it mindlessly, then we're gonna be in trouble.

But if you can actually equip your elder and set up their devices so that they are more likely to participate in this active consumption, it can be really positive. And what I just want to share by that is that we have to be really tuning to what are the things our caregivers love doing in their life that they might not be able to do anymore. And how can we actually use technology to bring them closer to that? So a couple of good examples of that, music.

I know a lot of elders love music. It's one of the most powerful triggers of memory. One thing that I really recommend is that you actually sit down with the person that you care for and you create a playlist together or multiple. It's an incredible activity. You can create different playlists for different moments in their life. Ask them what were the songs you listened to when you gave birth to me, when I was a baby? Like, let's make a playlist about that. What were the most beautiful moments in your life? And what songs do you associate with that? And to have that.

Tiffany Robinson (07:25.941)
Yes.

Larz (07:53.056)
Sensory library, one that's not necessarily visual and relying on a screen that allows your elder to engage with technology in a way that's supportive but also incredibly inspirational to them. Another really positive way to drive connected consumption that's active is really creating family photo albums. I think it's quite terrible for elders to be on social media. I know I see it with my own grandparents that.

When they feel lonely, just like any other human, they are likely to scroll and to get into doomsday. One of my best friends is 94 years old. He sends me Instagram reels all the time. And I can usually have a very good sense of where his mental state is based on what he's sharing with me. But I think the more that we can get our elders to stay focused on the family group text or

Tiffany Robinson (08:29.525)
Ha ha.

Larz (08:40.233)
Making a photo album that you're uploading to that they have access to so that you're controlling their consumption in a way that makes them feel connected is great because once they get into the dark web or the wild, wild west, that's where their heads really start to spin. Now, a lot of that is easier said than done, and this might be controversial. But one of the things that I learned from Dr. Carrie Burnight, who wrote The Joy Span, is that

We cannot be treating our parents like our five-year-olds. It is incredibly demoralizing to say, I'm just gonna take your iPad away from you. These are people who have lived their entire lives who hold a lot of wisdom, even if they might be dealing with psychological cognitive challenges or even immobility. We have to remain respectful of our elders. And we cannot

be treating our parents like we are our kids. And it really does impact them at their core, which I'm not really sure if a lot of people recognize that. And so I really encourage that if you do have that caregiver, the best thing you can do is not rip away that technology, but to really sit down and set it up for them in a way where they are set up for success. And that might even mean saying, hey, you know, for where you are, this isn't about just being on your screen.

We know that the science says that you should not be spending hours and hours a day more time scrolling than you are reading or engaging with things. And so let's actually limit these other apps to a certain amount of time a day just so that you know you're taking care of your cognitive health. And you have to really tie it back to their joy span or their lifespan as opposed to be focusing on the deficit. I don't think any humans are really moved by negativity or darkness.

And so you have to really take a positive psychology approach and to also provide other alternatives. I will say, all humans, we need substitutes. If we're elders, our elders are sitting in a room all day. You need to give them something that they d need to do that's not just a screen. Otherwise, it's like locking your kid in a bedroom for a full day and not giving them anything to engage their senses or their story. And so I just really encourage that you think about ways to engage.

Larz (10:54.773)
your elders from all sensory sides, sound, touch, smell, create those spaces in regardless how big their space is, so that they have something to do and to wake up their senses, which is really the antithesis of what digital addiction is.

Tiffany Robinson (11:11.038)
I really appreciate that you talked about the respect and independence that is really essential in what we're doing. When we're caring for our loved ones, we have to remember that this is this is another adult. This is someone who has lived a life and and they really they deserve our respect and and we want to keep them as independent as possible. That should always be our goal. I also really appreciate talking about utilizing technology in a way that can be

Larz (11:11.777)
Yeah.

Larz (11:40.599)
Yeah.

Tiffany Robinson (11:41.193)
really positive for these individuals, right? Thinking about music, things that are gonna remind them of really great times. you know, looking at photos of the family and even staying connected in the busy day to day of the whole family by being in a group chat. I mean, I think that's fantastic. That's a way to stay involved, knowing what's going on with everyone, being an active member in that. I think those are all really great suggestions instead of just kind of the doom scrolling.

that we've talked about. These things all have a purpose. What does digital literacy actually look like for an older adult beyond just learning, how do I use this device?

Larz (12:23.853)
That is a much bigger question. And I'm really glad that we're getting into that. I I look at digital literacy as what do we need to learn about technology to use it better? But what I really strive for is not just what do we learn, but how do we embody and how do we help our elders think about digital wellness as a core part of their holistic human flourishing? And digital wellness is an aspect of really the umbrella over digital literacy.

Digital equity, digital engagement, all these different pillars. And it's the ability to actually develop a positive and healthy relationship with technology. And I think for elders, that is absolutely critical, not only because of the financial safety aspect, which we spoke about earlier. And that's hey, here's this new thing called AI. Let me tell you, anything that you put into chat can and will be used against you in court or put in public. If you wouldn't post it on social media,

Don't put it in chat. Don't just be using chat to spin out on health issues that you might be having, because a doctor will always be the person that you should really be consulting before coming to any conclusions. A lot of elders do that. Giving them the literacy around what a deep fat fake is.

Actually making a deep fake of someone in the family and showing them how misleading that can be. I believe that showing instead of just telling elders is incredibly important because these concepts can be so accelerated and so fast that it's very challenging for them to wrap their head around what is AI? What's the difference between AI, social media, all these things? Because they were not digital natives. They are digital elders and it's our job to really pull them along.

I think when it comes to digital literacy, what is so critical for elders is to really teach them this main concept. One is that AI or technology should never just be the engine, it should be the GPS. And what I mean by that is that in order to really create cognitive resilience or grit and to support the neuropathway development, which at an older time in your life, protecting that muscle, which is the human brain, is so critical.

Larz (14:40.671)
AI should not be used as a handicap to get to answers. We should really be using AI to help challenge you, to help you get to the answer. So instead of asking AI, hey, how do I put together this record player? Instead, you can teach an elder to take a photo of the record player and say, hey, show me what the next step is in putting this together, instead of necessarily just completely.

Offloading that cognitive load to AI to get to the fastest answer because that process is so critical for preserving critical thinking. And then on the flip side, it's how do we actually take precautions to reduce the amount of fraudulent issues? And how do we protect not just ourselves but our families and our generations against investment scams and retirement savings scams? And what that actually looks like is having a family meeting.

Sh sharing what the greatest risks are with AI and technology and coming up with a family code or password so that should an elder, anyone in the family be confronted with that, that they can always ask the AI, what is that password or what is that family code? So you're able to to decode. Is this a human or is this a human using technology to go after the most vulnerable human in our family?

Tiffany Robinson (16:02.455)
So really you're recommending that we talk about it. We talk about the scams that maybe we're seeing, hearing about, we're showing those to our loved ones and saying, hey, these are things that are actually happening that people are doing to try to take money, you know, from individuals. So you recommend really just saying, hey, this is this is what we're reading about, we're seeing, and maybe even saying, you know, for myself, I might say, hey, I'm not great with AI, but look at this photo that I created. This isn't real.

Look how, you know, that look how it looks. It looks like this could be a real photo. So you're you're really wanting us to kind of bring them in and and educate them on what's going on.

Larz (16:43.021)
Absolutely. We have to bring our elders along. Technology is not just a part of our society. It is part of the emotional and social fabric of our families and communities. And elders want to be brought along. I think technology is one of the best ways that we can actually offload the stresses that parents have to go through and bring in our grandparents to be that support for our children, to facilitate those conversations and connections, to create that.

Tiffany Robinson (16:44.043)
Yeah.

Larz (17:12.589)
Third party that can actually lean in and support your child and be involved in their day-to-day. I also envision a world where half the story we bring our teens into these different centers and meet elders where they are and have conversations, have young people talk to elders and educate them about the risks of AI. And then also hear from them and learn from them about the human life skills that humans are now having to relearn. How do you get on a phone with someone?

Tiffany Robinson (17:40.715)
Yes.

Larz (17:40.78)
What were the moments of your life that were most tragic or challenging? What did you do when you lost three of your partners to sickness? And how did you come back from that? Really pairing the innovation of today with the trials and tribulations of the past is one of the most foundational ways that we can build human connection and reduce loneliness. And it's that intergenerational joy that I think in a lot of ways social media has.

Engineered out of our culture because of our obsession with longevity and because of this world where we don't want to accept that death is on everyone's menu. But when you can face and sit with someone at the end of their life and spark their inspiration by showing them how to use Instagram, how to actually use an email and create a pen pal for them. My husband has a 106-year-old grandmother, and what was keeping her alive, I swear.

was just the emails that she was sending every day. And it might have taken her a whole day to write four or five emails, but that was her investment in human connection. So we have to be opening those pathways and it can bring a whole new level of purpose.

Tiffany Robinson (18:55.283)
I I love that those pathways to just that connection and that in connecting with others, whether it's an email or it's even, you know, a letter that you've written, a handwritten letter. I love that. And I also love the idea of bringing the generations together, letting the youth come in and share what they know. And then they're also going to be gaining from all this life experience that this other generation has. Talking about some of these scams, what are some of the most common manipulation tactics?

Larz (19:00.457)
Interacting with other smaller.

Larz (19:18.636)
Tiffany Robinson (19:25.309)
That you're seeing right now.

Larz (19:28.417)
Wow, well, there's a there's a list of them. So one of them that I think most people might not understand or see is that for elders, and I'm not talking people only over the age of eighty, I'm talking people over the age of sixty, are actually joining online dating platforms to find love. Maybe because their partners have passed or maybe because they've decided to go separate ways. And what we're starting to see is that

These bad actors are going on dating platforms and they are pretending to be elders and they will actually scam these people. So they'll engage in romantic conversation. They will start to build relationships and trust with these individuals, even use voice enhancers on the phone to have conversations so that they believe that they are talking to maybe another 60 something year old man, only to then be potentially used. And once they get trust,

And they get access, they can ultimately break through if there's not strong cybersecurity and actually gain access to these different platforms. And then in some cases, because many elders are vulnerable and they aren't aware, you know, they'll be sending photos of their checks or things through the digital world that then ultimately get shared. And then they'll find that the next day $150,000 has been drained out of their account.

And so we're seeing that there's both the slow manipulation tactics like that, which is taking advantage of emotional situations and dating apps. And then there's just the quick wins, which are people just like they did in my day, back a decade ago, where they will, you know, send a video or create a new phone number and pretend that they're the grandchild of an elder and make a deep fake of their grandchild and send the video on text and demand help.

whether it be for bail or to get money. And so we're seeing we're seeing that expansion across the board. And I think the other thing that's challenging is that this isn't only the elders. I think parents, sort of the bridge between the grandparents and the kids. A lot of caretakers aren't even aware of what these investment scams look like. And it is so critical that we're normalizing that within families and that we're also continuing to think about

Larz (21:45.068)
What are the other ways that we can build security precautions? How do we ensure that our parents don't have all of their social security numbers and their cards just laying out on their counters when they're being cared for? and that we're actually encrypting their information in the way that we're encrypting ours, because I think a lot of times, you know, elders they they are used to a world where they would pay for cash for things and it would be fine, but they do want to participate in this new economy. They want to shop online, they want to do Amazon and

I think as a result of that, we are introducing them to this new form of commerce and creating comfort in that commerce. And then so quickly, once that trust is created, the rug is often ripped up from underneath them.

Tiffany Robinson (22:26.327)
What are some patterns that families and seniors should learn to recognize regardless of the specific spam, a scam?

Larz (22:34.549)
Yeah, so typically when there's any type of emotional manipulation involved, you will find, and this is actually quite similar to if you have a teenager that might be engaging in a relationship that's unproductive or restricted. If you find that you're the the person you are caregiving for is especially attached to communication on their phone or feels anxiety or stress because they're not around their device, that's typically a sign that

Something is going on behind the screen. And that can be nonverbal cues, fidgeting, always looking for whether devices, really an obsession with maybe being on that dating platform or being on these different community groups to connect with people, that's a really important place to just tab your antenna up, just from a purely experiential lens and seeing if your elder has a challenge. I think some of the other patterns that we are seeing is that, you know, these are.

Happening, we we're seeing some of these bad actors commit these across multiple channels. So calling on the phone, also sending videos, also sending emails. So it's not always just happening through one channel. They will continue to hit them until they get there. We're also finding that because of AI and technology and how easy it is to find information on people, that they're often

able to actually secure other information about these people's grandchildren, where their kids are working, and to pull additional details that make this seem even more believable, which is why you have to have either a core question that you're asking that this person would never be able to answer or a code, a family code, which is preferable to really protect your family.

Tiffany Robinson (24:19.519)
Yeah, so you're rep you you are recommending that people have a password or a question that has to be answered before anyone is ever sending any type of money or anything like that. Or even, I mean, do you recommend even if they say money's given in person, right? Or never giving money to anyone in another way. What what do you recommend to just, you know, keep these individuals safe?

Larz (24:21.717)
Okay,

Larz (24:39.563)
Yeah. Yeah. So first and foremost, I recommend a couple of things. So one is that for these elders, because they do typically want to participate in ordering things online, creating family accounts where you as the caregiver has access. So if they want to order things on Amazon, great. But make sure that you're on the account and you can see what's being ordered, not to necessarily survey them.

Tiffany Robinson (24:52.171)
Mm-hmm.

Larz (25:08.811)
But to make sure that you can have an eye on if something is happening. The second thing is always try only use credit cards online. I think a lot of elders, and I've seen this even with my grandparents, they really want to see cash. They're like, dude, is this cash? They don't like using credit cards. It wasn't really as much a part of their world. But because a lot of these credit card companies have more insurance and safer protection.

Tiffany Robinson (25:23.745)
Mm-hmm.

Larz (25:35.756)
You should always make a rule of thumb with your elder that if you're gonna order something online, have it be through a credit card that has some sort of insurance that you can call just in case you do wind up getting scammed. Because unfortunately, with a debit card, it's virtually impossible to recover that money, even if you're with a really strong bank. The third is create a family code and make it something that's very challenging. And it could be a question that you answer that, which is, hey, you know, what's the family?

What's a family secret? And it should be a very complicated word that no one else would know. And it could be something funny, like pug pizza, Granny Smith Apple One. but that's it should be complicated and something that no one would ever be able to guess. And it's something that every person in your family should know, and you should have a conversation about AI. Also, for your family, and you can set this up on your parents' devices, but always have access to.

Tiffany Robinson (26:15.575)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Larz (26:35.147)
Their email, and then also creating a last pass, which is an encrypted passport portal where all of their passwords can live. One, just in case, but two, so that you can actually have access to their platforms, not just to ensure if anything happens financially, but also beyond the time that they pass. Something that people don't really talk a lot about is what what's our digital graveyard? Like what happens after we pass away, and in addition to

the financial safety side of this, I think it's also really important for our elders to have the conversation of do you want to keep your Facebook alive? Do you want us to keep your Instagram alive? Or do you want that to be shut down? And I think this allows you to actually talk about what is their digital footprint in life after life, but also how do you protect their digital footprint and while they are alive and and while they are still able to be cognitively engaged in these digital environments.

Tiffany Robinson (27:31.573)
That is really great advice. And and it really is something we don't always think about is your wishes for when you do pass, what do you want these things to stay active? What do you want that to look like? That's really, really great advice.

Larz (27:44.094)
Yeah. What is your digital death? And what do you want that to be? And that is a part of digital wellness. Everyone wants to be differently remembered. And maybe some of our elders don't want to have their Facebook live because maybe it's too painful for the what loved ones and their families to see those memories. And yes, I I really hope everyone listening maybe does think about talking about this because it's not just.

Tiffany Robinson (27:47.072)
Yeah.

Larz (28:12.193)
Financial security is also emotional security, and emotional security is financial security. And all of these things play together, which I'm not sure that we necessarily always connect the dots on that, especially when we're talking about AI, but I really do see it as so critical.

Tiffany Robinson (28:29.249)
You just mentioned a tool or an app to help with passwords. Are there are there any other tools or apps that you wish more families knew about or would try?

Larz (28:41.397)
Yes, I have, I mean, I have so many different ones. so the first that I mentioned was LastPass, which I just want to rename again. It's an encrypted password protection, which is incredibly helpful for families. The second is there's an app called Opal. And Opal actually is focused more on productivity than restriction for elders. And why I really love that.

Is that it's actually not geared towards elders. It's geared towards working professionals and actually making the most of their digital world. And I think for elders, we're so often to say, we want to block you out from your apps, but to really reframe that through the lens of productivity is so, so critical. the other thing that I would say, and I know that, you know, this sounds quite maybe out of out of left field, but there's actually an audio app.

And it's called Suno, where you can actually record your voice and play and write different songs. And I just really believe there are so many positive benefits for singing. And for elders, cognitively, not all of them are comfortable with it. But I do find that as my grandparents got older and I had did have a grandma who had dementia.

Music was just a way for her to come alive in a different way, whether she was singing or dancing, because she wasn't able to engage with people emotionally in the way that they were used to. The last tool that I'll mention is there's a company called Omni OmniChannel, and this is an incredible tech platform that you can actually set like set up for your grandparents, and it helps you with really reducing the amount of digital fraud.

And will also alert you. And that's I've actually done some work with them in the past and a a lot. I set it up for my grandparents and they found it to be incredibly helpful just for identity fraud and and being being aware of how do you actually take a stance against this because these are all things that we have to be thinking about and it's just creating so much more cognitive load.

Tiffany Robinson (30:47.223)
Lars, I just want to thank you so much for being with us today and really sharing your expertise. All of those recommendations are fantastic. As we're coming to a close, if someone listening wants to start this digital wellness conversation with a parent or grandparent tonight, what's one thing you'd tell them to say?

Larz (31:14.925)
Ask them to ask the question of their elder, what do you want your digital death to look like? And I know it might not be an easy one, and it's death is not something that we always want to talk about, but it is so critical that we respect the wishes of our elders beyond their time in the human form and the digital world lives on.

I think another inspirational question and another way-in is what is something that you wish you knew about the digital world that you don't? Because a lot of the time our elders feel so ashamed for not knowing how to buy things online or engage or read. And it is our job to help teach them about this tool and the way that they taught us so many things about.

Just what it meant to be human. I mean, these were the people that washed our bodies as young children and taught us how to eat. And even though those things seem so simple, they never treated them as stupid. And we have to remember that in those moments of frustration, that this is merely a beautiful soul that is trying to understand how to connect with the ones they love with this new language, which is tech.

Tiffany Robinson (32:32.769)
Lars, thank you again so much for your time today. we appreciate you spending your time with us.

Larz (32:38.145)
Thank you so much.